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Does My Two Year Old Dd Show Asd Traits Or Not ?


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#1 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:49 AM

I posted this thread because at a routine two year check last week, the HV team nurse unexpectedly referred our daughter to Comm paed team and for a hearing test.

Prior to the check I was concerned that DD3 only said maybe 4 words and ignores me a great deal but reckoned she would catch up. 

I am not bothered about the constant high pitch screaming, (which I think is linked to lack of speech atm), throwing herself at the floor tandrums, OR playing on her own and missing me when I leave. I think these are typical toddler behaviour.

It was so unexpected to be referred, I should of questioned the point at the time

I have posted on here about how worried I am about 6yo DS

6yo DS has been a nightmare to get to school every day (bar a couple) last school year.
School say he is fine, it is normal for boys to hate school and refuse to come in every morning and suggested I do a parenting course.

Audiology consultant said 6yo DS has sensitive hearing and she has concerns about social communication difficulties.

SALT is half way through assessment on 6yo DS and said verbally he has social communication difficulties. 

School and I filled out AQ questionaires. I marked them online about 6yo DS.
Ours shows high score for possible ASD. Schools contradicts themselves in the answers and STILL either just over line or just under (depending on which scoring bands the Comm Paed team are using.)

Currently awaiting Comm Paed appointment and dreading return to school for 6yo DS

But following last week's two year check on 2yo DD3. She scored very low on speech & language AND hearing & language AND interactive social sections on the test. DD3 is only operating at 15 month level in these areas. 

Yet she got to 3yo level on visual processing, before she got bored and threw the rest of the cards down.

The nurse testing her said DD3 had a spiky profile and there are concerns with being two levels down on those three sections mentioned above and therefore she wanted to refer DD3 to Comm Paed and for a hearing test.

She wouldn't say what the concerns related too..I asked if it was social communication difficulties but she said she wasn't qualified to speculate further and it is best that DD3 is checked out by Comm Paed.

I am very worried about 6yo DS and his quirks and anxiety at school which the school dismissed as poor parenting only, he is just a boy.

I would of said up to last week that 2yo DD3 is a feisty difficult toddler. Similar hard work to how DS was at her age. She has no sense of danger, very brave. But she is highly social with family (unlike DS) but pushes past strangers like he does.

She needs to catch up with her speech, which I think she will. I think she is too young too label and frankly wish all help/support to be direct to DS who really struggles.

I don't know...just keep on loving them and see what happens.

So now I am worried about both children...bless them.

I also have two daughters aged 8yo and 4yo, who I am not worried about and are very happy at school and were relatively normal easy toddlers. 

They had tandrums etc...but nobody stared at them when them screamed, much easier to get dressed and change nappies.

So I am not a poor parent, I have two very well behaved children as well. 

The more I watch DD3 the more things I worry about. She spins a lot, walks on tip toes a lot, growls when upset, violent when other children get unexpectedly close....but don't all toddlers do similar things ?

She loves music and 'sings' Frozen Let it go, Pepper Pig theme tunes, to tell us what she wants to watch TV. She is very bouncy and was playing with the shopping trolley upside down and spinning the wheels.

Guess what I am asking is 'how can I tell if 2 yo DD3 is NT or not? '

Thank you for reading this long post .

#2 imperfect parent

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:09 PM

School say he is fine, it is normal for boys to hate school and refuse to come in every morning and suggested I do a parenting course.

 

I so nearly laughed when I read this because like you it was the first response I received When  the school nurse agreed with my concerns about my son.  Fast forward 12 years and I have 2 boys diagnosed with ASD and a decidedly strong willed DD who has just finished school.

 

The thing about ASD is that it changes; a child who might appear slightly odd at 2 may develop and cause more concern while a non verbal 4 year old can blossom and be little different to the slightly odd child as a teenager.  What you have at 2 is not a very good indicator of where they will end up, but in my view you will do little harm by supporting your child as though she has ASD, and a lot of harm if you treat her as naughty.  For all children firm and fair boundaries are useful, but you need to know when to fight and when to back down.

 

A lot of children do the same things at that age as your daughter; some of them may have autism.  You can't really tell at that stage if she has ASD, but if the behaviour is attracting concern from professionals I would think it quite likely that she has some areas of difficulty.  Early intervention is key, and could benefit her tremendously, but at the end of the day it's how she is not what label she has that is important.  A diagnosis may open the door to support, but all to often it is too little too late.  Knowing what else to try if your instinctive strategies don't work is the biggest benefit of suspecting ASD.

 

What I'm trying to say is that your children are the same children whether or not they get a DX, but the fact it has been considered by professionals allows you to gather information from places like this site and that will help all of you.


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#3 maximus prime

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:37 PM

My daughter Lucy was diagnosed with autism just a week after her second birthday, at the time the future looked pretty bleak as she had the development of a six to twelve month old baby. She's now 11 (and a half) and the little girl who was developmentally delayed across the board is now a very bright young girl on the verge of secondary school with no delays anywhere. For us the early diagnosis and the intervention that brought has meant that Lucy has been able to achieve her full potential.

 

Lucy got her early diagnosis for a number of reasons she has a brother Jack who has autism and was diagnosed by the same team seven years previously. She had very significant difficulties at the time and she had a paediatrician who knew that the right diagnosis( and the diagnosis he gave) in this area will bring support that is in high demand and therefore rationed.

 

As IP says some children at your dd's age will do the same sort of things but won't in fact have autism, frustration because of difficulties in communicating a child's needs has a significant effect on a child's behaviour so I'd be looking at ways to enable her to communicate. Lucy knew some Makaton and Jack used PECS. I would really recommend trying to get hold of a copy of https://www.hanen.or...Combo-Pack.aspx

 

As she is already singing to communicate what she wants to watch you could try singing. Lucy could sing long before she could speak and so I used to sing instructions to her "This is the way we wash our hands/ put on our sock/walk to the shop etc etc" She was hearing the vocab she needed and in time she could sing simple requests.

 

This site is a great place to ask for ideas and tips as we have all had different experiences and used different strategies so hopefully someone on here will be able to help you.


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#4 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:04 PM

She doesn't sing words more sounds in a kinda tune.

Ba, ba...Go
Is her Frozen vocabulary

And Pepper Pig 'words' are
DA, DA, DA

She signs baby, please/thankyou and sorry

Her verbal words are Mummy, Daddy, uces (juice) nana (banana but means any food), She often mixes up Mummy and daddy and sometimes chants these words one after the other. "Mummy, mummy, daddy"

She has spoken certain phrases perfectly once and never again repeated them. Like Chocolate AND Pepper Pig.

Thanks for the link.

Got DD3's Comm Paed appointment letter today, it is only in five weeks with same doctor we are seeing in a couple of weeks with DS !

I was shocked it was so soon but better to get it over with for my peace of mind.
Thanks for both your posts. It is lovely to hear of your daughter's wonderful progress. She sounds like a lovely young lady :)

I have marked up that book on Amazon and will get it on payday.

Sounds like I am going to have to wait and see what the doctor thinks as I have no idea and to be honest my head hurts from thinking far too much into things at the moment.

Edited by Babieseverywhere, 26 August 2014 - 08:44 PM.


#5 maximus prime

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:00 PM

It's still a positive that she has a way to communicate what she wants even without words. Lucy had no idea that she had any influence over what happened, she didn't point, take me to what she wanted, even cry or give any indication that she had needs. She would have been three at least before she managed to let me know she wanted a drink.

 

It's great that you are going to see the paed quickly, hopefully your dd will be referred to SALT at least. Have you had her hearing and sight checked? Lucy had her first appointment at 17 months and once the genetic and metabolic screen came back clear (checking for Retts and metabolic disorders) she went through a multi disciplinary assessment.

 

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a standard procedure nationally and so I can't tell you what might happen in your area, from posts on here there seems to be a lot of waiting and watching rather than assessment and diagnosis which is what I have experienced. 



#6 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:26 AM

We have a hearing test in a couple of weeks.

My daughter tends to get things herself or wait until it arrives on its own. As she has three oldest siblings who ask for drinks and food all the time and of course I make for all children.

If she gets hungry, she goes to kitchen and gets fruit or yogurt.

If she is tired, she goes upstairs and gets on her sisters bed for a nap.

If she wants to play, she takes herself off to a corner with an random item and/or a doll and plays on her own.

She doesn't seem to need me much (like her brother at this age). :( I am always checking on and following her.

Edited by Babieseverywhere, 27 August 2014 - 07:27 AM.


#7 maximus prime

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

Do make notes of all the behaviours that you don't feel are typical of a two year old, alongside when she reached her milestones as they will be helpful at your appointment. Don't hint that you suspect they are ASD traits as it seems professionals don't like this although our paed asked me what I thought was wrong and agreed when I said autism.

 

It may be a while before you get any answers but at least you have someone to discuss your concerns with and your dd is on the radar. Because Lucy had a brother with autism it added weight to the need for assessment for Lucy. Hopefully concerns about two of your children will add weight to them both needing a full assessment of their difficulties and needs.



#8 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:00 AM

I guess I am unsure what are 'normal' behaviour in a two year old...as everything she does IS normal for us iyswim

But will start writing a few things down.

#9 maximus prime

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:28 AM

Well if she's number four I would go by what she does that is different to how your others were as toddlers. Jack and Lucy were very different to my others and the other three aren't exactly average what with dyspraxia and a good helping of geek thrown in.

 

So for me with Jack he didn't speak but he could spell words, he had a preoccupation with letters and numbers and he liked lamp posts and TV aeriels. He used to line up cars, toys, tins etc, he'd spin wheels, he had a compulsion to escape, he could scale walls and fences like spiderman. His tantrums were unbelievable, he never slept and he had his own agenda and would fight anyone who interfered with it.

 

For Lucy she was silent, she never cried or laughed and rarely smiled. She was ultra passive and she used to pat everything. She didn't point, wave or clap, I used to say she was too good.

 

Really Jack and Lucy were like chalk and cheese and they still are to a great extent but I just knew that neither were developing typically whereas I never worried about my others. 



#10 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:36 AM

She is very like DS was at the same age.

She is a feisty toddler.

Changing her nappy is a real battle.

Getting her in a pram or car seat is very very difficult. Getting her to stay in it is impossible, currently escaping car seat with an additional harness from Halford in it.

Screams loudly frequently to get comments wherever we go.

Tandrums are epic and are also commented on. I try and ignore or carry her under my arm until we get to a safe place.

Climbs everything, anywhere to any height, no fear.

Hurts me all the time. By hitting, climbing and pinching...never reacts to me being upset.

Rarely responds to her name.

Growls when upset and lashes out at other children.

Often sticks tongue out and lick or mouths things.

Has lined up things and played with wheels but only sometimes iyswim.

Very kind and will hand out biscuits and drinks on request.

No concept of sharing toys yet.

Loves bouncing and spinning...falls over a lot.

Currently eats a lot but just this week starting to reject food (like her brother did at this age)

Touches everything and has no concept of personal space. Will walk over and hug her 'friend' who will run off crying as the hug was unwanted or too tight.

Has very little speech. Very independant and will do things for herself and rarely looks to me for help.

Loves watching Frozen and pepper pig.

Loves electronics and is very advance getting games on tablets or putting a film on the kids tv via media player.

She is bright. My husband and I feel she is chosing not to speak more, as she doesn't see the point...rather than can't if that makes sense.
She sometimes points but prefers to do it herself or take me to item if she can.

Waves on command.

Sleep is not good, up a lot most nights.
She walks and runs and dances on tip toes a lot

She loves playing in water. From ponds, pudding, bottles of drinking water and taps.

Flooded bathroom countless times...Climbs over safety gates which should prevent access to bathroom. Pours water on floor into cups etc. Refused to leave paddling pool even after hours in it....she loves water play.

Planing to build water wall in the garden when I get money and time DD3 and DS will love it :)

Edited by Babieseverywhere, 27 August 2014 - 11:10 AM.


#11 maximus prime

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:44 AM

And there is your list to take to the paed :) I wasn't at all organised with a list with Jack as I didn't know what to expect. Luckily Jack was decidedly odd and obviously autistic and so it didn't matter too much. The first time the paed saw him he said "so your GP thinks this is normal? I worry just how bad it has to be before they refer on" (SALT referred Jack) I'd got myself sorted with Lucy and it made life easier just because I wasn't trying to remember milestones and behaviour really.



#12 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:59 PM

She also blows raspberries on my skin and has started spitting and dribbling when she drinks deliberately (I am ignoring that behaviour but removing drink every time) She is after attention with that one I think :)

#13 maximus prime

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

Spitting is an autistic behaviour, Jack was a devil for it, mind you he was a devil for anything undesirable. A rule here was spitting was allowed in the bath only and once that was established spitting was only allowed every other day in the bath and in no time at all it was always a no spitting day ;)



#14 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:39 PM

Oh right...better leave it on the list.

#15 Babieseverywhere

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:45 PM

She also grimaces when she smiles...it is cute but other people don't like it.

Thing is the more you look...the more things I worry about, probably everyday toddler things.

Edited by Babieseverywhere, 27 August 2014 - 04:42 PM.





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