Jump to content


Photo

Help 8 Year Old Says He Wants To Kill Himself


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 11 October 2009 - 08:31 PM

I am new to this site and really need some urgent advice. My 8 year old son was being seen by a primary mental health worker who suspected that he had aspergers and referred us on to the next stage diagnosis. The Psychologist who has seen him (twice now) has completely dismissed aspergers saying that he has anxiety. I am at a loss as to what to think. When Aspergers was first mentioned I read up on it and felt like I was reading articles exactly like my son, although he does show anxiety this doesn't account for everything else. Breif run down : first noticed he was 'different' around 3 years old. He has always found making retaining friends difficult. Spends every available hour playing comp games - if the friends he does have come round they just sit and watch him play a comp game and he gets very frustrated with friends who want him to play more imaginative play. has meltdowns if he cannot play the game for long periods. whilst away at his nans for 2 days sent me 3/4 emails a day with very long detailed descriptions about tomb raider. Hates change in routine - in fact was the mention of me doing a short course in london that caused a massive meltdown last year which resulted in him getting the appoint but by the time we were seen everything had settled down again. gets upset if i redecorate and moans about it for about a month. has to know what is on the shopping list in advance and moans if I don't stick rigidly to it. Talks constantly about comp game - before I have even opened my eyes in the morning he has started until I drop him off at school - doesn't stop if I say I don't want to talk about it. If he can't play it then he will draw pictures about it. doesn't play with any other toys. when the psych came to visit he overheard me saying that he doesn't play with any of the star wars figures and that I'd bought him a tree house that he could play with them in, after psychol had left i noticed for the first time the figures were in the treehouse but they then remained in the exact same positions for over a month - almost like he'd realised that that was what he was meant to do but he didn't actually play with them. I have forced him to take part in social activities like beavers - which for the first 2 months involved me physically dragging him there, screaming and crying and with their help he eventually (after spending about 1 month) sitting on the perimeter watching he started to join in and enjoy going. Now he has moved up to the cubs, which is on the same night, we are having the screaming and refusal to join in. Now he is bigger its not as easy to drag him and last week he was hiding in his wardrobe. We went to Disney early this year with them which was a complete disaster, the whole weekend he was hysterical and only managed to get him on 1 ride that was very very gentle ie designed for a toddler and he was hysterical and had a complete meltdown. when the parade came around he turned to face a wall and refused to even look. This clampdown happens when something sets him off and there is nothing anyone can do or say that gets him out of it. Sorry if this all seems a bit rambling but I am quite upset at the moment as he said last night that everyone hates him and he wants to kill himself - he is 8 years old. I rang the psychol today and she told me that he has said that because he is unhappy!!!!! I feel she has dismissed the poss of asp completely (because school haven't noticed a problem - but he has had problems with making friends but he is not disruptive and his grades are good) and whenever I mention any other behaviours outside of anxiety they are dismissed. This is why I need some advice as I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall and don't know where to turn. I have friends with experience of working with children with asp or have relations with it and not one of them has said to me that they don't think he has it - the opposite in fact. Another point to mention is sometimes he seems fine but when he does have a meltdown everything comes to a head, also he costantly talks to himself, has facial tics when playing on the game and shouts out random words - he has told me that he doesn't know when that is going to happen and sometimes I don't think he knows he is doing it. Please can anyone offer some advice.

#2 Lux

Lux

    Wanted by the police in three counties

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,677 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:On the last train to Trancentral

Posted 11 October 2009 - 08:57 PM

Hi Woofy- pop onto 'coming and going' to introduce yourself. I am trying to read your post, but it is hard with no breaks in it. Will be back in a mo when I've read it.



What you describe sounds like AS but only professionals can dx. You need to be referred to an asd specialist paediatrician/psychiatrist. You can private message me and I can help you get started re the dx and the anxiety.

Most importantly, keep a diary. This is important evidence when you meet the professionals.

Secondly, if your son does have AS, there are a few reasons why he might say he wants to kill himself. My son said things like that from the age of 4. He was dxed 6 months ago. It is important to remember that (despite being bright and verbal) kids with AS often a) lack the ability/language to express their emotions at a 'reasonable' level; b ) do not experience some emotions incrementally, so they go from ok, to really really not ok in 10 seconds. It may be that your son is sad a lot from being mis-understood adn that this blows up from time to time when he can't cope any more.

As other members of this forum know though, there is a safety aspect to what your son is saying. Don't ignore it. Record everything and let him feel listened to and supported. This does need prfessional help though so if you ahven't seen them already (I can't remember from your post), ask your GP urgently to refer your son to CAMHS regarding suicidal tendancies.

My son still suffers badly with anxiety. He is all too often unhappy and doesn't cope well with life at all at the moment. But he no longer threatens to kill himself. You can help your boy and take the pressure off. You are in the right place for support for the both of you :)

Edited by Lux, 11 October 2009 - 08:58 PM.


#3 lollypocket

lollypocket

    Faith, Trust and Pixie Dust

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Kent

Posted 11 October 2009 - 09:00 PM

I guess my immediate thought is, if they think he has anxiety, what are they doing to help that? Asperger's or not, it is not right for a child of 8 to say he wants to kill himself. A huge part of problems on the spectrum revolves around anxiety and needing control, so I would expect a lot of the strategies used to help to be the same. From what you have written, it sounds like he could well have Asperger's, but it is not for any of us to make that diagnosis :( If they feel he has anxiety, what are they citing as the cause of this anxiety?

KW

#4 Snickas

Snickas

    is in another galaxy

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,054 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pegasus Galaxy
  • Interests:Astrophysics
    Stargates
    Star Treks
    I'm a huge space freak! lol

Posted 11 October 2009 - 09:46 PM

Could you possibly pay towards seeing a private ed psych for part of his diagnosis/or for a report to be used as part of?
But really as Lux and Lolly says, you do really need a referal to CAHMS for his anxiety, defo a referal to a peadritician (also can be requested at your GPs).
What I always say is, printout some research notes, the nas.org.uk have excellent reseach notes, and highlights the areas that specifically sound familiar to your son and when you see a specialist, refer to the printouts and show them.

I know how terrifying it is listening to the "everyone hates me and wants to die" :hugs2:

Good luck at pushing for the referals. If you can possibly afford a consultation, try and book asap. Let us know how you get on please :)

Edited by Snickas, 11 October 2009 - 09:46 PM.


#5 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 11 October 2009 - 09:54 PM

Hi Woofy- pop onto 'coming and going' to introduce yourself. I am trying to read your post, but it is hard with no breaks in it. Will be back in a mo when I've read it.



What you describe sounds like AS but only professionals can dx. You need to be referred to an asd specialist paediatrician/psychiatrist. You can private message me and I can help you get started re the dx and the anxiety.

Most importantly, keep a diary. This is important evidence when you meet the professionals.

Secondly, if your son does have AS, there are a few reasons why he might say he wants to kill himself. My son said things like that from the age of 4. He was dxed 6 months ago. It is important to remember that (despite being bright and verbal) kids with AS often a) lack the ability/language to express their emotions at a 'reasonable' level; b ) do not experience some emotions incrementally, so they go from ok, to really really not ok in 10 seconds. It may be that your son is sad a lot from being mis-understood adn that this blows up from time to time when he can't cope any more.

As other members of this forum know though, there is a safety aspect to what your son is saying. Don't ignore it. Record everything and let him feel listened to and supported. This does need prfessional help though so if you ahven't seen them already (I can't remember from your post), ask your GP urgently to refer your son to CAMHS regarding suicidal tendancies.

My son still suffers badly with anxiety. He is all too often unhappy and doesn't cope well with life at all at the moment. But he no longer threatens to kill himself. You can help your boy and take the pressure off. You are in the right place for support for the both of you :)



Thanks for the quick reply Lux. Sorry my previous post was a jumbled rant - a reflection on the state of my head I think!

We are under CAMs at the moment - but this is the psychologist I rang to say he said he wanted to kill himself - she said it was because he was unhappy and wasn't her problem it was the schools as it wasn't a psychological issue.

Just an update I originally posted the above last Wed on another forum but didn't have very much feedback - then I found this site. Since I originally posted this I have been into school and they are 'dealing' with the bullying and I have complained about the psychologist.

Developments since wed have been - finding him with his head in the fridge banging his head on the inside because he couldn't write an essay for homework - this had to be 2 characters, intro, build up and problem. He said he couldn't do it as he has no imagination (but he is very bright in factual subjects). I broke it down and said why not base it on the comp game he is obsessed with. He started but made a mistake and got very agitated - stabbing his pen through a leather chair making a large hole. He said he couldn't start it again as he had no more lined paper. I gave him lined paper and went out the room for 5 mins - then he was back with his head in the fridge.

We went and spoke to the teacher about it in the morning - she said he should have found it easy as they had been doing it in class and because it didn't have a title - I think it was the not having a title that caused the problem. When she asked him what the problem was he said there wasn't one - this is why school don't think he has any issues.

He has said that no one has picked on him since wed but he still has no one to play with and has said he doesn't understand what they talk about or doesn't know when its his turn to speak.

He also refused to join in with his swimming class this week as he said he doesn't like the people as they try and talk to him. He is very insistent that I home school him and seems to want to stop all social contact.


All of his 'odd' behaviours seemed to be heightened at the moment and I am finding it very draining.

#6 Snickas

Snickas

    is in another galaxy

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,054 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pegasus Galaxy
  • Interests:Astrophysics
    Stargates
    Star Treks
    I'm a huge space freak! lol

Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:19 PM

it isn't the psychologists problem!!! :fury :fury :fury isn't that their jobs?!?!?! ]
Oh i do hope you've complained hun, thats so wrong on so many fronts really. No wonder you're all over tha place really :hugs2:

Is the schools SENCO involved yet? surely they would be complaining just for the "its schools problem" as school would obviously get ed pysch involved!!! was the pysch from CAHMs or the ed depart?

could you possibly talk to the schools SENCO about the story problem? so they could guide the teacher a bit better....it sounds to me he may have managed in class as he could have been copying from what someone else has said. I know in the past my son M (who has aspergers and goes to a specialised school, oh and is 15 now) won an award for his first "official" story a coyuple of years ago now and i was absolutely over the moon, went to the award ceremony and afterwards went to his classroom and read the story. I soon came to realise it all sounded so familiar, apart from the names, incidently was his brothers names :angel and then i remembered....he'd only wrote a simpsons cartoon he had seen a couple of weeks earlier!!!!!!!!!! couldn't believe it...of course I couldn't say anything, he'd already been rewarded :blush: but when i got him home, i told him i knew, to which he :lol: :P

Edited by Snickas, 11 October 2009 - 10:20 PM.


#7 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:36 PM

it isn't the psychologists problem!!! :fury :fury :fury isn't that their jobs?!?!?! ]
Oh i do hope you've complained hun, thats so wrong on so many fronts really. No wonder you're all over tha place really :hugs2:

Is the schools SENCO involved yet? surely they would be complaining just for the "its schools problem" as school would obviously get ed pysch involved!!! was the pysch from CAHMs or the ed depart?

could you possibly talk to the schools SENCO about the story problem? so they could guide the teacher a bit better....it sounds to me he may have managed in class as he could have been copying from what someone else has said. I know in the past my son M (who has aspergers and goes to a specialised school, oh and is 15 now) won an award for his first "official" story a coyuple of years ago now and i was absolutely over the moon, went to the award ceremony and afterwards went to his classroom and read the story. I soon came to realise it all sounded so familiar, apart from the names, incidently was his brothers names :angel and then i remembered....he'd only wrote a simpsons cartoon he had seen a couple of weeks earlier!!!!!!!!!! couldn't believe it...of course I couldn't say anything, he'd already been rewarded :blush: but when i got him home, i told him i knew, to which he :lol: :P



Hi Snickas

I know - I couldn't believe what she said - she also said because he was 8 he didn't know what he was talking about. I spent the whole of wed in tears and the phone call with her just made me feel neurotic. By thurs though I was angry and complained. Every piece of supporting evidence I have given her she has dismissed because she said if he has asp then he wouldn't be able to settle into things like cubs, interact with anyone and schoo; would have detected a problem. Yes the Senco worker is aware now - but wasn't aware he was under camhs!! I first met her this term when they were dragging him off me to get him into class. Maybe I should go and speak to her re what the psychologist said - just been speaking to her re the bullying.

I have a similar story to your son's - my son got an award for a piece of writing - but it was very similar to charlie and the choc factory which he had just read. I have noticed that any of his stories characters are all people he knows or from a computer game.

#8 Snickas

Snickas

    is in another galaxy

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,054 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pegasus Galaxy
  • Interests:Astrophysics
    Stargates
    Star Treks
    I'm a huge space freak! lol

Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:47 PM

if i was you i would ask if you could talk to the schools senco asap and defo tell her whats been going on hun, update her with everything and see what she has to say. From what you've said here tonight you shouldn't be dismissed the way the psych has been doing so. The senco may be able to bring in another psych for another assessment, and i bet that one would be the complete opposite to everything that has said.

Theres been other parents on here who's had assessments done in the past with ed pysch's and were completely shocked at the outcomes and have gone on to see private ed spychs and have had a completely different response.

#9 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:00 PM

if i was you i would ask if you could talk to the schools senco asap and defo tell her whats been going on hun, update her with everything and see what she has to say. From what you've said here tonight you shouldn't be dismissed the way the psych has been doing so. The senco may be able to bring in another psych for another assessment, and i bet that one would be the complete opposite to everything that has said.

Theres been other parents on here who's had assessments done in the past with ed pysch's and were completely shocked at the outcomes and have gone on to see private ed spychs and have had a completely different response.



I have found this so far as the primary mental health worker who referred us to CAHMs said in her report evidence fo autistic spectrum disorder and had spoken to me about Aspergers. The first meeting we had at CAMHs my son lined the pens up on the table, got agitated when one fell over, made no eye contact with her and answere using one word robotic answers and shouted out a few random unconnected words. At the end of this meeting she said she didn't think it was Asp but anxiety??? (basing her findings on a very scant report from the schoo; teacher he had last year - who hadn't noticed any issues, but it was a large class and my son is quiet and has until now been coping academically)

He does have anxiety but there is more to it.

I will go and speak to the senco tomorrow.

#10 phobia09

phobia09

    How many posts? Get a life!

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,663 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Where No LA ever Win's

Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:36 PM

Hi

Has your son seen an OT or salt yet? If not could you arrange assesments, they really will help everyone get a clearer idea of his issues, from the sounds of it he does seem to have communication issues and some sensory self stimulating behaviour, having these things highlighted may help the psych get a clearer picture of your sons difficulty, We have had both private and nhs assesments and found the information invaluable, until the nhs salt assesment we had no idea that our daughter was confusing simple words like fist and last and required visual time tables etc

I would look into your nhs route for these assesments , or if you feel that you need assesments faster look at the private sector

trust your instincts (((HUGS)))

Mina xxx

#11 tedybearr

tedybearr

    How many posts? Get a life!

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,698 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bristol

Posted 12 October 2009 - 07:57 AM

i have the same trouble with B's school. because hes quiet and non disruptive he gets overlooked by the ed psych.the kids that bounce out at him tend to be noticed but B doesnt like the attention even if the teacher says something to him he thinks he is being told off. the school doesnt see him as much of a problem but when theres only one class for his year and theres alot of kids in there that you can obviously see are having probs then hes not going to stand out i suppose. changing school after half term. i'll have to see what happens then. anyway i would not be happy as you are not if the ed is saying its the school problem, whats he thinking of.best wishes.

#12 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:36 AM

Hi, Pardon my ignorance but what is a salt assessment? We are under CAMHs at the moment. I have been into school this morning and spoken to the senco worker and she said that they will look at strategies to help support him in school.

I did say that up until now he has not had any major problems at school and has in fact seemed to enjoy the structure of the school day. She agreed this can be the case and as such their problems are not easily identified at school. She has suggested that they keep a diary - which I think I should do as well. I did ask if they had a psych ed they could bring in but - they do have one but they only have 7 days to cover all the children in the school. She agreed that this was nowhere near enough to make an evaluation.

#13 Lux

Lux

    Wanted by the police in three counties

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,677 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:On the last train to Trancentral

Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:45 AM

Speech and Language Therapy.

We got a SaLT and Occupational Therapy assessment done as soon as we suspected AS as the NHS and school were so slow to react. The private reports were instrumental in us getting things moving for C, but things are very slow none-the-less.

#14 woofy

woofy

    Old as the hills

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:In front of my computer
  • Interests:Art, Taekwondo

Posted 12 October 2009 - 09:28 AM

Speech and Language Therapy.

We got a SaLT and Occupational Therapy assessment done as soon as we suspected AS as the NHS and school were so slow to react. The private reports were instrumental in us getting things moving for C, but things are very slow none-the-less.



Oh yes sorry - yes he has has a speech and language assessment. That turned out to show he was above average but during the assessment he shouted out his random words and muttered to himself. At the end of the assessement the woman asked me if CAMHs had discussed autistic spectrum with me!! The psychologist at CAMHs after hearing this wanted another assesment to be done in school as she wasn't happy with the assessment as far as his social use of language was concerned. Sorry - don't know what happened to my first reply!

#15 lala39

lala39

    How many posts? Get a life!

  • ASDf Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Nutjob House, 36 Asylum Lane, Bedlam
  • Interests:Staying awake

Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:49 AM

Hi woofy, it sounds like you are going around in circles here hun, with one person saying one thing and school saying there is no prob ( a situation I am extremely familiar with!)
Is it possible that you can get everyone involved 'around the same table', so you can put your point across and everyone else can have their say too.
It may also be an idea to have some support from someone like Parent Partnership, they are really understanding and supportive and can attend school meetings etc, and point you in the right direction.
It might also be an idea to speak to your GP or I use the school nursing team (really good), to get some support for you. I know all too well how it feels when you are parenting on your own and seem to be getting nowhere, you need someone to listen to your concerns and help you make the right decisions! Instead of feeling like you are being fobbed off and going nuts (like me lol).
It is heartbreaking to hear them say they want to kill themselves, but in my sons case, it is a way of expressing how anxious and pressured he is feeling and he is having more SaLT assessment at present, although he too has been shown to be above average in some areas.
I would say you need to get some kind of co ordination inn your sons' care.
Sorry my boy was dx last year (on second opinion, as HF AS/ASD)

Hope some of this helps hun, always here , even just to listen and know how you feel x




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users